thoughts on life and health of minds

[frith_in_thorns]

This post contains some things that I've been thinking about for a while, and thinking about saying publically.  However, these are personal things, and they have the potential to change your opinion of me, so this is a warning.  I considered flocking this post, but, having decided that I want to say these things, I don't want to hide them away.

Nor is this post either a whine or a rant.  It is a thought.

 

This post has been sparked by two boys in the zoology department.  I’d never seen them before, so they were likely biochemists just there for a lecture (the other possibilities are psychologists or medics, but I really hope that’s not the case).  While sitting at a table in the café next to the one I was working at, they were having a loud conversation, focusing on a girl in their group who’d been given a pass on a due essay by their tutor, apparently because of a depressive episode.  This was being discussed by them in terms of how unfair it was, how everyone was depressed occasionally (apparently one of them had been depressed the previous night because their football team lost…), and how it was pathetic that people were given special treatment just because they ‘couldn’t be bothered to have a better attitude’.

At the time, this made me very, very angry.  I wanted to walk over to them and tell them that depression is not a general feeling of unhappiness or angst, it’s when you can’t move from where you’re lying on the floor because the air above you feels as if its turning black and smothering you.  It’s when you can’t even imagine succeeding at anything you have to do, so even the simplest things like sending an email or going to buy milk are absolutely insurmountable.  It’s when you start carving lines into your flesh with a blade because the endorphin release from making yourself bleed is the only happy feeling available to you.  It’s when you need a lot of time to recover from social interactions, even ones you enjoy (in this the internet is a godsend – I can talk to people at my own pace, without the physical encounters.  If it didn’t exist I’d probably be much worse off).  It’s most decidedly not something that can be fixed with a better diet, or exercise, or the power of positive thinking.  It is an illness.

Of course, I didn’t say anything.  I have thought about what I would like to say, as evidenced above.  However, more than that, I’ve been wondering why it is that circumstances arise far more often than I’d like to which the above paragraph would be a reasonable response.

After all, I’m absolutely not a Very Special And Unique Snowflake.  There are a lot of people suffering from clinical depression.  There are people on my flist with chronic illnesses which cause them a lot of pain, and so I often feel intensely guilty whenever I otherwise would like to complain about how crap I’m feeling.  I don’t feel that I deserve to complain.  In a strange way, I don’t feel that I ‘deserve’ to be suffering.  After all, it’s all in my head.  Maybe if I just tried to see the glass as half-full instead of half-empty…

Yeah.  The thing I actually want to talk about is the attitude that people with this condition, this imbalance in brain chemistry, should be ashamed of it, should be helping themselves, should, for god’s sake, try and smile a bit more.  Because I am ashamed of it.  I’m incredibly ashamed, and do constantly feel that I shouldn’t be affected by this.  I should be ‘stronger’, ‘more positive’.  Only a few people know about this part of me, and know that I currently rely on a very high dose of prescription medication to enable me to function at all.  I’m going on holiday with a group of Taruithorn friends in the summer, and I’m terrified of the part where we’ll go swimming and they’ll see my scars.  (Part of the reason for writing this post, I confess, is because some of the Taruith people are on LJ, so I then won’t need to explain this face-to-face to them.)  And yet other conditions affecting the brain (i.e. Asperger’s syndrome, bipolar disorder),  don’t appear to have the same stigma attached to them, this idea that it’s the sufferer’s fault.  Of course, I only have an outsider’s perspective on those, so I might be mistaken, but it’s the impression I’ve gained.  I actually wonder whether it’s partly because they have ‘proper’ names, instead of also being the name given to a mood, that depression seems to be taken much less seriously in terms of being an illness which requires medical treatment.

And now that you’ve read all of this, you’ll think differently of me than you did before.  It’s inevitable, and one of the reasons why I don’t share usually share this information.  But right now, I want to be heard.  I’m tired of standing in a corner and pretending I don’t exist.  I want to speak up.

 

Comments

[elleblue.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I love that you exist :-)

[frith_in_thorns]

*hugs back* Thank you for being my friend.

[sir-rosealot.livejournal.com]

I don't think differently about you! In fact, I know so many people (of my uni friends) who are/have been depressed than when I meet people, I assume that they have until I find out otherwise.

[frith_in_thorns]

I don't like hiding this and being ashamed of it, but writing this post was very scary. So thank you for your comment, I'm relieved :)

[baby-werewolf.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

It probably is because of the name thing. People can say they're feeling depressed without actually having depression, so unless they bother to think about it - and people tend to not think too deeply about reasons for essay-related whining - it's quite easy for people to equate the two things.
(Probably also part of the reason bipolar disorder gets called 'bipolar disorder' - sounds more disease-y than 'manic depression'...)

[frith_in_thorns]

*hugs*

Yes, exactly. That's why I used bipolarism as an example - the different words carry very different connotations (have you heard me go on about MRI as opposed to NMR?). But when people do equate them, it's just infuriating.

[footnotetoplato.livejournal.com]

. . .

I guess I've been rather sheltered, because I don't think I've ever heard anyone say something as stupid on the topic as the two boys you mention.

Will I think differently of you? Yeah, in that I guess beforehand it wouldn't have occurred to me to encourage you not to feel ashamed for being ill (aside: actually, I do this too occasionally. When I'm too tired to do something I ought to I can feel guilty, as though I'm just being lazy. Or particularly when I'm not too tired at that moment, but worried that if I don't rest I will get more ill ...)

Seriously, though, I'd like to try to say "it's okay to talk about things. People aren't going to judge you". I haven't the time right now to find the proper way to phrase that.

You're really pretty awesome.

Oh, and I think you might be optimistic if you think it's going to be warm enough to go swiming ... :P

[frith_in_thorns]

I've gone swimming in an Alpine glacier lake before... :P

Thank you very much for your response to this. It's probably silly, but I did worry that maybe, by posting this, people might not want to be friends with me anymore. And I really, really didn't want that to happen. I worry too much. But I love being told that I'm awesome, that doesn't happen often :D

And yes, I wanted to go and scream at those boys. Or punch them. Sadly, it's not the first time I've heard people say that sort of thing. Someone last year (and it was a biochemist then) argued with the lecturer about depression being an illness. Yes, in the middle of the lecture. She basically told him to go to hell, which was pretty satisfying!

random thoughts

[violetcheetah.livejournal.com]

michelel72 led me to this link.

I've actually kinda -had- the above discussion with people before, both about depression, and about cutting. Most of the time, it just leaves me feeling more pissed off, because it doesn't change their minds, and probably just reinforces their belief that depression is just someone whining about feeling a little sad sometimes. One of those discussions was with my mother, whom I suspect is also clinically depressed, among other things. I still remember the put-upon sigh, followed by, "I hope some day soon you grow up."

The best was the guy who used to work at my company, who one day pointed to my arm and said, "You do that to yourself?" Kudos for being blunt, actually; I prefer that to the trying-not-to-stare method. So I said "Yeah," and there was a briefly satisfying conversation, where he was like, "So it's a kind of stress-relief thing?" and a couple of other things that indicated that he sort of understood. Then he said, "Why don't you just get drunk instead?" I said something like, "So, it's more acceptable to be a drooling alcoholic than to just slice my arm once in a while?"

I wrote 40 pages of memoir stuff for a graduate-school class. Not long enough for a book, too long to try to get into a magazine. So I uploaded it as an independent author to the amazon kindle platform. But I did it under a pseudonym, and I didn't mention it on facebook or lj, because I don't really want non-close friends to read it, because it's about cutting, and being committed, and depression. I'm not ashamed anymore, exactly, but I still feel furtive about it. I have no qualms about strangers reading it, but the idea of the friends-of-friends I see occasionally at get-togethers knowing about it... I dunno.

Anyway, I'm glad you wrote this here. The more people say it, the better.

Re: random thoughts

[frith_in_thorns]

My parents don't know. Considering that my dad's favourite insults have always been to tell me that I'm a wacko, or that there's something wrong with my brain... yeah. That conversation wouldn't go well.

I couldn't afford alcoholism on a student budget ;) I kid - it's bizarre that there are such different levels of acceptance about different things, really. And with cutting, there's this whole 'emo' stereotype, and 'just looking for attention', which really doesn't help at all.

And yes, I completely get about the not wanting 'non-close friends' to see private stuff - I'm afraid to just project one attribute as the entirety of my personality. I really don't want that.

Thank you for posting here, and sharing :)

[leesa_perrie]

*mega-hugs*

As a past sufferer of depression, though admittedly a mild case in that I didn't feel suicidal or cut myself, I admire that you've some out and said this. Of course, it didn't feel mild at the time, it was a horrible time full of self-doubt, self-loathing and a feeling that nobody really cared (even though I knew that wasn't really true, somewhere deep down).

I find it annoying when people confuse depression with just feeling a bit depressed (ie their football team losing!), and a name change might help. I think people take bipolar more seriously now than when it was known as manic depression.

For a while I was on Prozac, though that got changed to another anti-depressant after Prozac turned me into a smiling everything is fine hyper person! As my husband, boyfriend at the time said, it was like I was high all the time. But the second one I got put on worked better. Just enough lift to be able to deal with life and go to counselling.

I'm trying to work out how long I had depression. Around 6 years I think. It wasn't a case of 'pulling myself together', but a mix of counselling and my faith in God (yes, I'm a Christian and I'm not apologising for that!). But it works differently for each person and there's no sure cure.

Of course, a couple of years after recovering from depression I started suffering Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (or ME) - another illness that people don't understand and that is 'invisible' - ie it's not obvious that there is something wrong. An illness that is NOT psychological, despite the fact that many health officials still try to treat it that way - there is plenty of evidence that the illness is physical.

But I digress!! Depression is a chemical imbalance, sometimes caused by circumstances, but more often not. I always saw taking my anti-depressants the same why as a diabetic taking insulin. Okay, maybe not a brilliant analogy, as I didn't get suicidal and so wouldn't have died, but it is a case of replacing a chemical that the body isn't producing properly.

Anyway, you're not alone. Depression is amongst the fastest growing illnesses in the West. Sometimes just knowing you're not the only going through/having gone through it helps.

*more hugs*

[frith_in_thorns]

*hugs back*

A good friend of mine developed ME the year before our GCSE year. Needless to say, I would never deny that it is a physical illness. Or perhaps not needless to say, since she had a horrible time with her school authorities refusing to believe that she was ill, despite her not having enough strength to get out of bed for days and days at a time. (She's recovered now, I'm happy to say.)

I don't do counselling. I doubt that it would work on me, since I have the mindset that it wouldn't work. I've got that from dad, which is just a little ironic (see the start of my reply directly above your post). With medication it's mostly managable, and I can cope with that. I like your analogy, btw.

You should never have to apologise for being a Christian! I have no faith myself, but I'd never critisise anyone else for it. It's everyone's individual choice.

Thank you very much for commenting, and for sharing this stuff. Really nice of you :)

[cealdis.livejournal.com]

Footnote pointed this out to me, so I hope you don't mind me commenting.

I'm sorry (some) people are such shits. And I'm sorry that (some) people think it's okay to demean an illness to the point where you feel ashamed about it. Sometimes the world deserves a good kicking. With big stompy boots.

I think you're doing an awesome job, both with this post and at Tolksoc. You're a really great member of the society, and I'm pretty sure we're going to have lots of funtimes on the holiday (although I second what footnote said ... swimming? In Britain? In summer!? You are definitely the bravest of us all).

[frith_in_thorns]

Of course I don't mind you commenting! In fact, thank you :)

I would often like to give the world a kick with big stompy boots. Or at least certain people in it. I have a list ;)

And I'm really looking forward to Tolksoc holiday! I love all you guys, it's going to be great :D

(As I said to footnote - I've swum in an Alpine glacier lake before :P)

[proskynesis]

So much of this rings true to me. Particularly the being ashamed. Can't actually count the number of people who have told me to think positively in some variation. ._. And I know how scary it is to write posts like this... so well done, and thank you. <3

[frith_in_thorns]

Scary yes, but now I'm glad that I did :) I was worried that people would be like, "you're weird, gtfo". And it's so hard sometimes *not* to be ashamed.

*huggles*

[x-varda-x.livejournal.com]

*bear hug*

I agree with you, I believe there is a certain stigma/taboo attached to classifying psychological conditions as illnesses.

Why that is, I'm not sure. Maybe people think it's because physical illnesses can be seen and quantified, whereas psych ones require you to look beneath the surface a lot of the time to find out that they are often akin (or sometimes worse) than physical ones?

The word 'depression' has a wide range of interpretations: going from just feeling a little down, to being something far more serious, requiring medical treatment.

The men you saw do not seem to comprehend this. Those guys = jerks = grrrr!

[frith_in_thorns]

*hugs back*

Yeah, I think that's one of the reasons for the stigma. Because if you can't see something, it must not exist...

And yup. Stupid people. I guess they're everywhere...

[ed263.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

Does your post change how I think about you, yes it does. I am blown away by how brave and courageous you are for posting your thoughts on a public forum, but also for just going on with life! Not letting this illness win and keep you from going to university, going out to socialize with others, writing fanfiction stories that bring joy to the readers, and just for going on with living as full a life as you can!

This world is a bighter place because you are in it! &heats;

[frith_in_thorns]

*hugs*

Thank you, so much. I'm amazed by the lovely things that you and others have said in response to this post, to be honest - especially since I was so worried about writing it. So, again, thank you :)

[dr-biscuit.livejournal.com]

And then again, there are many people who 'know' this, who would never expect another person to be ashamed of their illness, but who hold themselves to a much higher standard.

Speaking up is very hard, and admirable. Thank you for trusting us enough to share.

[frith_in_thorns]

Thank you for listening, and responding. *loves*

[astridv.livejournal.com]

*hugs* I would never think any less of you because of this. You are awesome and brave and deserve nothing but respect.

My grandmother suffered from depression when she got older, though I think she had a milder case. Many of my online friends have it. Not so many offline...that I know about, I mean. I think people may be more ready to share this part of themselves on the internet. It's not something easily talked about because of the stigma that's still attached to it. I really learned about depression reading other people's posts on the internet. I used to be completely ignorant about the effect it has on you. I had no idea.

[frith_in_thorns]

I certainly found it easier to type this for people to read than I would ever find it to say these things face-to-face with someone. Possibly because I can pick and shape my words in advance, and therefore say exactly what I mean to, while being shielded from any bad reactions... although I may be over-thinking this ;)

Thank you very much for your response, and *hugs* back.

Also, your Rodney-and-Teyla story is (finally) nearly finished! A few more days :D

[manylelephants.livejournal.com]

Likely to change opinions of you? - Quite likely. My profound respect for having the guts to say all this, especially on a deliberately unlocked post - after all it is an awful lot easier to hide behind holding your silence or even a few flipant comments to the perpetrators.

(Afraid this sounds a bit like I've copied it from the countless posts above, but I've been tinkering with this for a while in between essay writing and it seems a shame to delete it just because someone else has made the same point)

Speaking of flipant comments, I'm trying desperatly to avoid some kind of poor You Are Not Alone joke, in order to keep up my reputation for extreme poor taste, but frankly my hearts just aren't in it.

Sadly the world has a fair (unfair (?)) proportion of people who either don't think or are simply physically incapable of it. It's just a shame they have to end up doing MY SUBJECT...
Feel free to try and 'just feel better' but to the best of my knowledge it simply doesn't work like this. I know you will still feel angsty about feeling this way, but you have no reason to need to do so. I think a fair proportion understand what you are going through all too well, and those who don't sympthise. And those that do neither...I'm not all that sure they matter.

I'm probably at this juncture meant to say something about "things will get better" but this is (as I think you have said) both unhelpful and I don't believe that this is a particularly good philosiphy or way to think regardless of the truth of the matter (a matter on which I am far from qualified to even venture an opinion). All I will say is that you do have many friends who all wish you the very best and I'm sure want to help as much as they can - far from abandoning you for posting something like this. Of anywhere, I think Taurith and OUSFG and their memberships can be relied upon in times like these.

OK - I'm going to shut up now and stop rambling...

Very best wishes - *hugs* if you want them (while trying not to sound too creepy) - and you can has a Colin after he is recovered?


Finally...um...afraid they most probably were biochemists and possibly from my year since we have had labs in zoology. We're not all calous and thoughtless though! Some of us are simply proffessionally evil - afraid it's part of the job description...

[frith_in_thorns]

*snorfles at bad joke* and *returns doug-hug*

Thank you, very very much, for your post. To be honest, if I'd locked this post, I'd have felt like a hypocrite considering the content. But I was still scared of peoples' reactions, and now am very relieved that I misjudged. I think I should bookmark the comments to this post for reaffirming faith in humanity :) Apart from biochemists. I'm joking.

I'm not good at either giving or receiving platitudes (seriously, at any rate - I excel at giving them ironically!). So thanks for the not-platitudes. They're lovely. Sorry, I've lost my coherency now - it's too late/early to be thinking!

And don't worry, I never doubted that you are professionally evil! It's obvious just by looking at you :P

[stained_glass]

*HUGS YOU* Have sent a longer comment by PM.

[frith_in_thorns]

*HUGS BACK* and thank you very very much for that PM. You're lovely :)

[oboetheres.livejournal.com]

Initially I was thinking that this didn't change my opinion of you, but then I read some of the other comments and I realized that they were right: deciding to post this was brave, and I think it has raised my opinion of you. *hugs*

I've never had a mental illness, though I have a few friends who do, and I find it hard to believe that there are still people who don't take it seriously (this is not to say that I doubt your story, 'cause I don't. I just can't imagine how people still think that way, just like I can't imagine how people can still be racist).

Also--"It’s most decidedly not something that can be fixed with a better diet, or exercise, or the power of positive thinking. It is an illness." I doubt that you meant that symptoms that can be fixed by dietary changes or exercise cannot result from legitimate illness, but it could be read that way. :-S

[frith_in_thorns]

No, no, I didn't mean it to read that way at all - I've just heard things said along the lines of it being something caused by things like not exercising properly. All those things do, to a greater or lesser extent, help fix symptoms of many illnesses, but they themselves aren't cures, or aren't in this case. I didn't think of it being read in any other way, so I do apologise if it was at all offensive.

And thank you for your comment, and *hugs* back. It's something I've wanted to post somewhere for quite a while now, and I thought I'd better just do it, because if I don't voice what I'm thinking, I'll never be able to do anything about it...

[sholio]

I don't have much to say except for **hugs** and I'm glad that you found the inner strength to talk about it. I'm still not really to that point yet.

[frith_in_thorns]

Thank you, and *hugs back*. Much hugs :)

[michelel72.livejournal.com]

I know other folk who have dealt with depression and cutting (::points up::), so I know it's all real and all a medical situation. To me, it's like having other friends with that situation, or knowing that my mother has beaten cancer but fears its return: Just something to be aware of as a matter of being concerned for a friend, no more (and no less).

My father never trusted doctors — medical, much less psych — and didn't even want my brother or me to get eyeglasses. He supported my mother through her cancer, but he has little to no patience with her fear of its recurrence or with the fact her work can drive her to tears on a regular basis. He's also an alcoholic and sees nothing wrong at all with his drinking. People do in fact get very strange ideas about what is socially "acceptable".

[frith_in_thorns]

You should have hugs, too. *hugs you*

And yeah, I can never quite wrap my head around all the various things people thing about what's socially acceptable and what should be stigmatised. But it's so wearying, and so I've been trying to write a post like this for a while, to give my own opinion.

I'm so glad that I was unjustified in worrying about how this post would be received. Thank you very much for your comment :)

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

*hugs*
I'm afraid I can't really think of anything to say that hasn't been said - I'm not very experienced with this sort of thing and don't think I have a natural talent for it. Essentially what I'd like to say has been covered quite well by footnote and manylelephants, but I'll add that I think you're a fairly awesome friend and you have nothing whatsoever to be ashamed of.

[frith_in_thorns]

*hugs back and apologises for incredibly slow reply which I've already given you in person so just have hugs on here for now and if you read all this in one go and it made sense then congratulations*

:P

depression

[longdeadeuler.livejournal.com]

I'm probably far too late for this comment but meh

I have had many family members suffer from severe depression and know from this experience that it is most certainly not "just feeling sad" or "being emo" but is a very serious disease which can impact on peoples lives and families just as much if not more than any physical condition.
To echo the thoughts of everyone before me I think you are incredibly brave in posting this and being so open, and I hope that those two boys can stop hiding behind their "condition" and just admit to being thick moronic retards

Re: depression

[frith_in_thorns]

I do appreciate you commenting, thank you, and I'm hardly up on the prompt-ness myself here! I was going to say something along the lines of hoping you don't now think I'm too crazy, but I'm sure I've already scuppered that! At least I'm not the one in the closet ;)

[photo-chronicle.livejournal.com]

Hi Frith :)

I've just read this now - I don't know whether it is the case (and it shouldn't be, ideally!) but it ocurred to me that, because we see each other on a daily-ish basis, you might be wondering/worrying whether I had read it and not said anything, for one reason or another, or whether I hadn't read it. I don't know, it's egotistical, but I thought I should just register with you that I have read it, in case you had been wondering *feels stupid and goes red if it hadn't!*

And also, I understand, in more ways that one.

J x

[photo-chronicle.livejournal.com]

I hope I've done the right thing! :S

[e-pepys.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I missed this post during a lull in my LJ-reading. Coming to it late, I can only echo what many others have said. Clearly your flist contains a better class of person than your average biochemist.

Actually, I haven't come across the opinion expressed by those two boys (what pooh brains, eh?), but do know plenty of people with clinical depression and know what a debilitating condition it can be at times.

I am impressed by your eloquence and bravery in posting this. I think saying this out loud is an excellent thing to do, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't take courage to say it.

So does this mean I think differently of you than before? Yes, of course, but only in so far as I now know more about you and what you have to go through - just as with any other serious illness, or family troubles, or bereavement, or werewolfism, or the like. If it changes my opinion of your character, it is only in a positive way - eloquence and bravery and all that.

many hugs