NiF - please avoid this if it will annoy you

[frith_in_thorns]

I STILL haven't finished Nirvana in Fire, and have finally pinned down my reluctance to do so.


I'm pretty sure my entire watching of it has suffered from it being sold to me in SUCH an over-hyped way. Frustratingly, I think I would have enjoyed it so much more if I hadn't had managed to pick up the impression that it was completely Life-Changing, The Best Show Ever Made etc. Like, it's good? But people similarly tried to sell me on The Untamed as The Best Love Story Ever, The Saddest Thing They've Ever Watched, etc, and just nope.

Also, I guess when I watch things and talk about them as I go on Twitter (with hashtags) I tend to be pretty irreverent? Like, I talk about notable bits to me -- the things I enjoyed and also the things that made me laugh. But I definitely felt when I talked about NiF I hit a vein of "you are not allowed to say anything critical about this Perfect Show", I think unintentionally, but.... yeah. It definitely made me feel I wasn't allowed to enjoy NiF in the way that I was enjoying it, so I... stopped enjoying it.

I'm on episode 50, btw. I've been here for two months? Bleh.

[Edit: Comments now full of spoilers]

Comments

[philomytha]

Ah, that's a shame. I had it recced to me as twisty politics, loyalty galore and lashings of h/c rather than as The Best Thing Ever Made, which I expect helped when I got to the yeti beetle plot... also I loved it, but I did go and make a cup of tea whenever we got to the long love songs for MCS and Nihuang: it's not that I didn't like their romance, but my tolerance for that kind of musical interlude is very limited.

[sheron]

I skipped the entire yeti beetle plot and have no regrets :D

[frith_in_thorns]

Yes on both counts. Also I think one of my main overall frustrations is that the Emperor just carries so much of the Idiot Ball and we see him making the exact same mistakes over and over and over. Like, I get that they're showing him as paranoid and in the process of being destroyed by his own past mistakes, but I have been internally groaning every time there's another scene with him :/

I have been enjoying the twisty politics! That's what kept me going, along with the friendship stuff. Although Jingrei was my favourite and I'm still so disappointed he left :(

[philomytha]

Jingrui was The Sweetest. I mean, he's the kind of character that the term cinnamon roll was invented for <3. His farewell speech to MCS is amazing. I missed him a lot in the second half as well.

I just loved watching Jingyan shout at MCS that he couldn't follow MCS's twisty dishonourable advice because the noble ghost of Lin Shu was watching him... fortunately the show kept on delivering on that kind of scene, plus there was an endless supply of MCS struggling up off his sickbed to do something secretly heroic without telling Jingyan, so again, I'm easily pleased in that regard ;-)

I found the Emperor's tragic/evil/disaster arc worked for me, it was Prince Yu's descent into armed assault on the Emperor that I found a bit hard to swallow, plot-wise.

[frith_in_thorns]

(Jingrui, sorry! I started off with very dreadful subs which had his name as Jingrei half the time -- although I found better subs quickly I have been left with lingering confusion over spelling and keep picking the wrong one.)

Interestingly I found Prince Yu much more compelling/interesting than the Emperor! I was disappointed he was eventually killed off.

I get why MCS and Jingyan did not Just Talk, but arghhhh I have wanted them to for a long time XD

[sheron]

TBH as someone who's recommended this and other c-dramas to people, it really frustrates me to see them overhyped so much. Like, I love these shows, but they are just entertainment! And the way they're being sold to new people I'm pretty sure it's making some reluctant to even try it out of fear that they aren't "liking it enough", and then ruining it for those who have tried a few episodes because their expectations are misaligned.

I'm really really glad I watched all these shows thinking I won't like them, but might as well because I was bored. I had a really good time.

[frith_in_thorns]

Honestly, I've been enjoying the Lost Tomb shows and Sleuth of the Ming Dynasty so much more because of the lack of pressure and associated worry that I'm doing something wrong in how I'm relating to the show.

[sheron]

Hee, I'm glad you're enjoying those! I love Sleuth :D

[shipperslist]

I haven't seen NiF and don't plan to but yes, I get you on The Untamed. It was incredibly pretty and yeah, it was a bit sad and yeah, it was kinda nice but overall? Nah.

[frith_in_thorns]

Honestly, I really enjoyed most of The Untamed up until the last few episodes, which were TERRIBLE. Everyone stood around in Lotus Pier being shocked, and then there were four excruciating episodes in the temple being SHOCKED, and I was honestly just laughing out loud and pleading for it to be over by the time the temple scenes were only half done. And then the fandom is a trashfire, so XD

[shipperslist]

And then the fandom is a trashfire, so XD
I knew that even before watching. :D

[xparrot]

Not to be all one of those "the book was better" fans, but...the problem with The Untamed's ending is that in the novel, the whole climactic villain reveal is really a backdrop for one of the most incredibly ill-timed love confessions. Which is hilarious, because while everyone's finding out the truth and getting shocked, they are also being assaulted by LWJ/WWX's shameless PDA, and it's beautiful.

...Okay, I feel that MDZS is ultimately a (often pretty dark) comedy. Which may be why I never really fit in the fandom ^^;

[frith_in_thorns]

Ellie has been slowly reading MDZS and she definitely feels it's a comedy, but then she also lives in the Meng Yao Dead Dove Trashcan corner of the fandom (in her words) so probably also not indicative XD

[xparrot]

Heh, that's reassuring to hear! I read MDZS a couple of years ago (pre-Untamed) and really enjoyed it as a comedy. But then Untamed fandom is so much about it being an epic tragedy that I've assumed my memory of the book was more selective than I thought!

[sheron]

The feeling of the novel vs the show is really different! I wouldn't call it a comedy, even a dark one, but it's quite hmmm, cynical? I guess is the word I'd use about human nature and very "i'm capable of everything another human is capable off" (to quote maya angelou) with it's themes.

Also it's really interesting to hear that apparently corners of the fandom are a trashfire because it really hasn't been my impression at all with my small rarepares that I fan in that fandom!

[xparrot]

Yeah, that's honestly why I don't really "work" with the main MDZS/Untamed fandom, because most fans seem to see it as a pretty deep exploration of human nature, and I, uh, didn't. To me I enjoyed it as a really OTT and pretty ridiculous romance between a super-powered stoic and the world's fluffiest necromancer. And I really enjoyed it as that! But I never had much interest in reading more into it.

[forestofglory]

I've had that happen to me with other things and it's so frustrating!

I'm glad I watched NiF a bit ago because I think I might of had this problem if I was trying to watch in now. Though I was bit skeptical of it when I stared because people kept telling me it was about revenge and I don't like revenge. (I consider NiF to be about justice seeking rather than revenge, but I get that that's a nitpick to a lot of people)

[frith_in_thorns]

I find this extra frustrating because I know perfectly well I'm one of the annoying people who literally refuses to shut up about her favourite media and tries to force everyone else to watch/read/listen XD So I am also experiencing a layer of guilt about doing this to other people :P

[forestofglory]

I don't see you doing that at all! (I was a bit worried was part of the NiF pile on, since I have been enthusing about it on Twitter recently)

[frith_in_thorns]

Oh no, this isn't talking about anyone specifically, and obviously everyone is allowed to enthuse about their fave fandoms! Just that this has been the cumulative effect on me of the *way* this fandom's talked about. And I'm genuinely pleased that this is the Perfect Show for lots of people!

(And, I definitely do do this. Especially in RL, but I guess it's easier for my friends to shut me down when I'm doing it in person XD)

[xparrot]

Ow, I'm sorry it backlashed on you like that! The NiF hype actually worked well for me, because the way it was pitched I went in expecting Prestige TV which I sometimes like but sometimes really don't, but then it had so many wildly OTT fannish things with h/c and slashiness and all that I ended up enjoying it more than I really had expected to. (Which I think is why many of us do hype it so much, because it can be fun to have a show that you can rec to people and random non-fans as Quality, but at the same time brings the fannish feels...)

I've definitely had things I did not enjoy because of hype backlash (Umbrella Academy I bounced off hard) but it especially sucks when you actually were enjoying something, but in a way that clashed with how others fanned on it. You need to find a circle of "people who like NiF well enough but also happily fast-forwarded or laughed through a lot of the nonsense"!

[frith_in_thorns]

I think, sadly, I would have really enjoyed it for the OTT fannishness if I hadn't had it oversold to me as something Not OTT AT All. And I feel bad about it, because among everyone I've seen talking about it I seem to be the only person who feels this way, and I've felt very much (and I'm sure this is no one's actual intent!) that my feelings on it are Objectively Wrong.

And also, I confess, I just don't care about MCS in a fannish way at all. He's great! He's very entertaining to watch! But actually I'm not interested in h/c for him, which is rather disappointing given the source XD

I really should just get on and finish it so I can stop feeling guilty about it...

[sheron]

I think all of us would be happier if we stopped feeling guilty for things we like...and dislike XD

Also I have zero fannish feels about the relationships on the show, even though I really like them! So not alone in that at least.

[xparrot]

Ahahah...yeah I love NIF and I think it's a legit brilliant and epic show, but it is also COMPLETELY OTT and denying that is denying a lot of the pleasure of it! MCS is a ridiculous drama queen and that's why I love him (I do like MCS fannishly, and his h/c works for me. Ironically that's part of why I didn't get more into the show fannishly, because most of the meta I saw seemed to be about how MCS was so flawed a character that you weren't supposed to like him unreservedly, and I...did, and wasn't really into either defending or criticizing him. Rather like Shen Wei, I just wanted to squee about how much of a mess he was XP So yeah, I sympathize with feeling like you're fanning on NIF wrong, even if we're doing it wrong in different ways! XD)

[sheron]

THIS. Exactly! I had the identical experience in terms of expectations vs reality when I watched it. It's exactly why I enjoyed it so much. I expected something way serious and then idk, it was connecting just enough with my fannish soul to draw me in without making me actually want to write any fics for it.

(I totally fast forwarded through the beetles, btw...)

[xparrot]

Some of my favorite things are those that can bring the plot and drama and all, but also the fannish feels, and NIF did that for me! And yeah, the humor too...I always like a show more for knowing how to use comedy. Though NiF is one of my "Type A" fandoms; I love to watch it and show it to people, but I don't want fic for it.

[teyla]

Oh no, I'm sorry NiF got overhyped for you! I hadn't even thought about that being a thing that could happen--I tend to be one of the people who go <3__<3 whenever that show is mentioned, but I also got to watch it completely unspoiled and un-hyped, so was able to watch it without the pressure of feeling like I had to like it.

I get you on The Untamed, though. I watched it with a friend who's very much into it and I just. The slow pace killed me dead, I cared for very few of the characters, the love story was middling to all right, and I hated the exposition-in-a-bar scenes with a passion. All of which may also have been hype backlash, probably in combination with that show just not selling emotions in a way that works for me.

As for NiF, I think the thing that makes it stand out to me is the way the plot is constructed? I tend to consider it kind of a lesson in how to write plot in a TV show, because the way it makes all the loose ends come together did blow me away. That said, it's not a show I'd expect absolutely anyone to love. They sit around scheming and drinking tea most of the time; if palace intrigue isn't something you're here for, it's a tough one to sit through.

Edit: I just read your comment thread with xparrot and realized this might make you feel even more like you're doing it wrong somehow, so I'm back to add that the OTT fannishness is absolutely in there and I absolutely love it just as much as I love the way the plot is constructed. MCS is a ridiculous drama queen and Jingyan is a himbo, and I love them. Also Jingrui! I'm glad you enjoyed him; he and Yujin are my second favorite pairing on the show.